K20 powered 172

william... · Jan 31, 2018

Hi,

i postet a quote before. How did you get so much space between engin and body shell? Did you remouve the Mointing for the gearbox too?

Chambers_RS · Jan 31, 2018

william... said:
Hi,

i postet a quote before. How did you get so much space between engin and body shell? Did you remouve the Mointing for the gearbox too?

Sorry mate.
I just undone the alternator mounting assembly and moved it all to one side.
Think if your running PAS pump you will struggle to do this tho.

william... · Jan 31, 2018

I didnt have that much space! Running at the original Pas and alternator, and there is no space to remove the waterpump pully after loosen it.

I need 3 mm more space. This was the reason for the question. With the gearboxmount there is no posibility as per my opinion to move it moir to the gearbox side. But than ive seen your pic.

robzracing · Jan 31, 2018

william... said:
I didnt have that much space! Running at the original Pas and alternator, and there is no space to remove the waterpump pully after loosen it.

View attachment 1354962
I need 3 mm more space. This was the reason for the question. With the gearboxmount there is no posibility as per my opinion to move it moir to the gearbox side. But than ive seen your pic.

With a trolley jack under the engine, undo the top engine mount and you should be able to lower the engine just enough to get clearance.

william... · Jan 31, 2018

Sorry didn't want to disturb the Topic.
Wasnt possible like that

(Lowered also the subframe)

Well undo the gearbox mount and crossed fingers

Chambers_RS · Feb 1, 2018

Hmmm compression test came back ok presuming my scores are good for an F4R engine?

If so it’s Back to the drawing board.

robzracing · Feb 1, 2018

They look spot on.

Christopher. · Feb 1, 2018

Keep with it mate.

Out of interest were you hoping for a bit more power with the ECU?

Our graphs from EFi are at similar peak HP but the way they both go about it is massively different. Quite interesting to see just how the engines respond from different upgrades/Modifications, and how that affects the mapping of them.

william... · Feb 2, 2018

Great results. Good symmetry is the target.

Chambers_RS · Feb 2, 2018

Christopher. said:
Keep with it mate.

Out of interest were you hoping for a bit more power with the ECU?

Our graphs from EFi are at similar peak HP but the way they both go about it is massively different. Quite interesting to see just how the engines respond from different upgrades/Modifications, and how that affects the mapping of them.

Cheers bud.

Wasn’t expecting more power nah was just hoping the Gen90 would belt reliable than my standard ecu which keep giving me immobiliser issue lol.

Yeah seen your graph you posted good results and makes things interesting.

Aydon182 · Feb 2, 2018

197 cams dont like grpn timing i remember when they were originally tried with it they lost power.
what mileage is on your engine btw?

Chambers_RS · Feb 2, 2018

Aydon182 said:
197 cams dont like grpn timing i remember when they were originally tried with it they lost power.
what mileage is on your engine btw?

I read that somewhere after thinking why didn’t fit any lol.

It’s tick over 96k on the dyno. How come?

Aydon182 · Feb 2, 2018

Chambers_RS said:
I read that somewhere after thinking why didn’t fit any lol.

It’s tick over 96k on the dyno. How come?

just wondering, havent you thought about just going itbs ? you have pretty much all the gear except the itbs you could sell the rs2 and end up not out of pocket much, and youd be well clear of 200 bhp, with probably better torque everywhere in the range, maybe a slight sacrifice down low but probably not.

Chambers_RS · Feb 3, 2018

Aydon182 said:
just wondering, havent you thought about just going itbs ? you have pretty much all the gear except the itbs you could sell the rs2 and end up not out of pocket much, and youd be well clear of 200 bhp, with probably better torque everywhere in the range, maybe a slight sacrifice down low but probably not.

Haha yeah constantly thinking about.
It’s nice to have something slightly different to the norm tho but I am defo thinking about trying itbs.

Martin. · Feb 5, 2018

Yeah that's a good point. You've got everything else there. ITBs would be the icing on the cake. RS2 will always be a compromise in my opinion.

Chambers_RS · Feb 5, 2018

Martin. said:
Yeah that's a good point. You've got everything else there. ITBs would be the icing on the cake. RS2 will always be a compromise in my opinion.

Yeah I do get it’s a compromise but it’s or was awesome to drive with the GrpN timing.
I was looking at PMS ITBs last night.

What’s with the TPS sensor that needs wiring in?

Martin. · Feb 5, 2018

Oh yeah don't get me wrong I'm sure it was. I'd have Marks old cup engine over any ITB'd one. Love the fact it was the standard inlet still.

Chambers_RS · Feb 5, 2018

I managed to borrow a smoke machine to make sure I didn’t have any major air leaks from the RS2 inlet last night, all seems sound.

So Chris at EFi check the throttle body was working ok, which it was, he also checked the air filter setup wasn’t causing a vacuum and restricting flow, which it’s wasnt at all. I’ve checked compression and the RS2 and found nothing wrong.

Only thing left is to check is the timing but can’t see how that would be out or how I’d check it actually as I only have the standard timing tools.

R29TJR · Feb 6, 2018

Chambers_RS said:
I managed to borrow a smoke machine to make sure I didn’t have any major air leaks from the RS2 inlet last night, all seems sound.

So Chris at EFi check the throttle body was working ok, which it was, he also checked the air filter setup wasn’t causing a vacuum and restricting flow, which it’s wasnt at all. I’ve checked compression and the RS2 and found nothing wrong.

Only thing left is to check is the timing but can’t see how that would be out or how I’d check it actually as I only have the standard timing tools.

At least you're marking off all these potential issues and you must be getting closer to locating the problem.

Keep Going!!

Aydon182 · Feb 6, 2018

The timing may well be out a degree or two, has it seen any hard track action recently?
When you hit an apex / curb hard enough to get half the car airborne and the airborne wheel is spinning at a rate much faster / slower than the wheel thats on the floor this can throw out the timing. With the grpn cars they would carry round boxes of cam end seals in their vans because they were constantly popping them out to check the timing after every session

Chambers_RS · Feb 7, 2018

Aydon182 said:
The timing may well be out a degree or two, has it seen any hard track action recently?
When you hit an apex / curb hard enough to get half the car airborne and the airborne wheel is spinning at a rate much faster / slower than the wheel thats on the floor this can throw out the timing. With the grpn cars they would carry round boxes of cam end seals in their vans because they were constantly popping them out to check the timing after every session

It saw track last March where the immobiliser deiceded to cut in and not start the car at the end of the day and that’s how it stayed till about a month ago 😂

I’ll have a little look at the timing and see what’s what I reckon.

Tomotek · Feb 7, 2018

Aydon182 said:
When you hit an apex / curb hard enough to get half the car airborne and the airborne wheel is spinning at a rate much faster / slower than the wheel thats on the floor this can throw out the timing.

I’m not sure who told you that, but one wheel spinning faster than another won’t affect the timing at all.

Aydon182 · Feb 7, 2018

Tomotek said:
I’m not sure who told you that, but one wheel spinning faster than another won’t affect the timing at all.

Took a while for me to recollect where i heard that from, but a fair while ago i was sad enough to watch through 7 or 8 hours of a guy rebuilding a 182 Cup engine on youtube and when he got to the timing portion he explained this exact theory, im under the impression hes no stranger to the f4r and actually races them (presumably in the 182 Cup championship, or maybe some other class) and it made logical sense to me, but then again i suppose he is just another guy on the internet, just like you. So maybe i shouldn't take it as Gospel, just trying to perhaps steer chambers in the right direction.

It's time stamped, so youll get straight to the point. I probably could of explained it better but i watched this probably almost a year ago.
Out of interest, whats your alternative theory as to why cars throw out timing? ive seen and heard of other people / teams constantly checking timing in between race sessions so depending how sensitive or prone a car is to doing so would be a factor i presume

Edit: its 28:50 incase your browser doesnt start at the time stamp

Chambers_RS · Feb 7, 2018

New plan is in place.

RS2, Dirzena Alloy rad, ITG, KTR fuel rail will all be for sale after the 18th Feb if anyone is interested.

Aydon182 · Feb 7, 2018

Martin. · Feb 7, 2018

Aydon182 said:

What a tool.

R29TJR · Feb 7, 2018

Chambers_RS said:
New plan is in place.

RS2, Dirzena Alloy rad, ITG, KTR fuel rail will all be for sale after the 18th Feb if anyone is interested.

Good luck with it.

bashracing · Feb 7, 2018

If what the chap in the video was correct in his theory, then the timing would jump every time you dropped the clutch off the start line.

Personally I don't think there's any issues with the timing or any other part the engine, I put it down to the characteristics of the RS2 and the SM intake that the runners are just too short to allow the air flow to clean itself up before it reaches the back of the intake valve at higher revs.

Flame suit at the ready

Aydon182 · Feb 7, 2018

Martin. said:
What a tool.

Constructive, thank you. If you're quick to judge or say somethings incorrect, cant you educate us as to why hes wrong? When you do so without giving any reason or theory as to why its incorrect you look like an even bigger tool imo.

bashracing said:
If what the chap in the video was correct in his theory, then the timing would jump every time you dropped the clutch off the start line.

Personally I don't think there's any issues with the timing or any other part the engine, I put it down to the characteristics of the RS2 and the SM intake that the runners are just too short to allow the air flow to clean itself up before it reaches the back of the intake valve at higher revs.

Flame suit at the ready

I would imagine landing off a curb at 8k rpm is harsher than peeling the wheels off the line, when you drop the clutch its still linear to catch the correct revs after the wheels have stopped spinning rather than the shock of suddenly being forced from an impact to drop revs, i dont know. It's definitely not gospel just a suggestion, im pretty sure the thread starter tested everything including compression and hes down 20hp / 20 tq from his last power run with no changes, seems weird and the final thing to do would be check timing as hes been advised by EFI.

I am genuinely interested in what some of the reasons they throw out timing though, seems none of the above are equipped to answer, just know that things are wrong.

bashracing · Feb 7, 2018

Apologies, I've re read the post from dyno day I thought we had 186hp & 160lb not 172hp & 149lb
agree it's a little down and timing needs checking

haimsey · Feb 8, 2018

Bring on the trumpets!

Chambers_RS · Feb 19, 2018

Took the car to Mallory yesterday to give it a run out. Performed well all day and didn’t miss a beat, apart from being down on power compared to last time it went pretty well considering it’s not mapped fully lol

Time to pull it apart :smile:

haimsey · Feb 19, 2018

Looks well even if it’s not working right!

Chambers_RS · Feb 20, 2018

Pic from Sunday

And picture from tonight

Nearly ready to be yanked out again

vroomtshh · Feb 21, 2018

How much heat does your manifold give off? How many things do i really need to worry about protecting 😂.
Looking forward to seeing what this does with bodies

NorthloopCup · Feb 21, 2018

vroomtshh said:
How much heat does your manifold give off? How many things do i really need to worry about protecting 😂.
Looking forward to seeing what this does with bodies

They give off a lot of heat as you would expect, but they also cool down pretty quickly as well tbf. Mine used to be cool enough to touch within 5-10 mins.

vroomtshh · Feb 21, 2018

NorthloopCup said:
They give off a lot of heat as you would expect, but they also cool down pretty quickly as well tbf. Mine used to be cool enough to touch within 5-10 mins.

Enough as melt brake lines and coolant bottles?

Chambers_RS · Feb 21, 2018

Nothing has melted with the heat shield that I made. It’s nothing major but can feel the heat on the bonnet after a hard stint on track. Lol

vroomtshh · Feb 21, 2018

I'll

Chambers_RS said:
Nothing has melted with the heat shield that I made. It’s nothing major but can feel the heat on the bonnet after a hard stint on track. Lol

I'll maybe stick some heatshield over the brake lines. Probably leave the rest for now though

NorthloopCup · Feb 21, 2018

vroomtshh said:
I'll

I'll maybe stick some heatshield over the brake lines. Probably leave the rest for now though

I made this to cover everything on mine - brake lines and reservoir included.

K20 powered 172

South Central-South Coast

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