Group N timing and SM inlet

JP83 · Feb 2, 2018

I have yet to fit the SM inlet I purchased to my 172, but before I do I was wondering whether anyone was running one, with Group N timing?

Is anyone running just the SM inlet on standard timing, and running a standard(ish) 1*2 on Group N timing?

@bloke do you have any Dyno graphs for the above?

Basically wanting to know if one of those mods would cancel out the other if both were fitted.

Chambers_RS · Feb 3, 2018

I’ve got an RS2 with GrpN timing but with a few other bits done too.

Might give similar results

bloke · Feb 3, 2018

nothing on gp n sorry. know a couple that have been done and they didn't give any noticeable gains over standard. can't remember if i was speaking to chris about the gp n timing on them and it possibly not working that well with the set up? could be wrong though as it was couple of years ago.

Gus · Feb 3, 2018

@bloke have you had any experience with SM inlet and 197 cams ? Just wondering if this is a good combination ?

bloke · Feb 3, 2018

with 197 cams they seem to do over 190bhp, couple been over 195bhp. the first inlet they did though seemed to give the best results, on same/similar spec the second one wasn't as good. only seen one on the latest one, can't remember the figures but was poor, think was only about 185bhp?

when they were £500 was good value for money but now i wouldn't bother with one, especially as the newer one hasn't proved itself yet.

JP83 · Feb 3, 2018

bloke said:
nothing on gp n sorry. know a couple that have been done and they didn't give any noticeable gains over standard. can't remember if i was speaking to chris about the gp n timing on them and it possibly not working that well with the set up? could be wrong though as it was couple of years ago.

No problem buddy.
I'm steering towards fitting the SM inlet and getting it mapped first anyway. Belts were only done last year so wouldn't fit cams now anyway; perhaps later on when the belts are due.

NorthloopCup · Feb 3, 2018

Grp n cam timing is optimised for the original inlet really.

R3k1355 · Feb 3, 2018

bloke said:
when they were £500 was good value for money but now i wouldn't bother with one, especially as the newer one hasn't proved itself yet.

Can't help but think that with the amount of money you could spend, the power gains are pretty bad.
The F4R doesn't respond well to N/A tuning.

Tim. · Feb 3, 2018

R3k1355 said:
Can't help but think that with the amount of money you could spend, the power gains are pretty bad.
The F4R doesn't respond well to N/A tuning.

But with these inlets, especially the RS2, you can enjoy the benefits, potentially for years, then still sell it for a very healthy amount, and encounter almost no additional costs as a result.

It would be interesting to run a cost comparison against both a turbo and ITBs over say a five year period. What's the cost per bhp after resale.

EVO 4LEX · Feb 3, 2018

NorthloopCup said:
Grp n cam timing is optimised for the original inlet really.

Mark, where are the gains seen with the group n timing? Peak power, peak torque or just a better spread??

WhiskySniffer · Feb 3, 2018

Has anyone else noticed it's listed again at £549? Im unsure if this is another new design as it looks to have longer runners.

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tessa-Moto...558902?hash=item4d6bc51136:g:zhwAAOSwdjdaNB-W

bloke · Feb 3, 2018

Gee182_Cup said:
Has anyone else noticed it's listed again at £549? Im unsure if this is another new design as it looks to have longer runners.

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tessa-Moto...558902?hash=item4d6bc51136:g:zhwAAOSwdjdaNB-W

they were £700 few weeks ago, the guy is a grade a gimp!!

love the 50mm runners just in case you're going for 250bhp na :tongueclosed:

WhiskySniffer · Feb 3, 2018

It just looks as though he has added the 50mm jenvey spacers onto it.

bloke · Feb 3, 2018

think he cast them? saw some pics on his idiotbook page a while ago, can't check though as i got kicked off it, don't know why :innocent:

NorthloopCup · Feb 3, 2018

EVO 4LEX said:
Mark, where are the gains seen with the group n timing? Peak power, peak torque or just a better spread??

Main gains are midrange mate with a slight increase to top end. They just seem to breath that little bit easier if you get me?

Aydon182 · Feb 5, 2018

I bet if you offered £450 for that tessa intake he would take it, id say that would be worth the money, looks a nice bit of kit.

Also this might be of interest to some of you;
https://www.cliosport.net/threads/congrats-to-danpl6-on-cracking-200bhp-rs2-197-cams.676040/

alexroberts0289 · Feb 7, 2018

For reference, my 182 is making 201.5bhp with the following: SM Inlet, 197 cams, ramair filter, RS192 exhaust, de-restricted CAT, Engine Dynamics custom remap.
The dyno graph shows 3 lines with basic supporting mods; Lowest run at 179bhp with supporting mods and rstuner map, middle run at 190bhp with previous + SM Inlet, Best run at 201.5bhp with previous and 197 cams.

Was pretty pleased with the outcome! Especially considering Andy at Engine Dynamics said it had originally been a little down on power with the mods and rstuner.

Gus · Feb 7, 2018

The machine work that goes in to these is pretty amazing. They are very well made and considering they are made out of a huge billet of aluminium is pretty cool. To have something like that made in the uk would cost thousands wouldnt it?

Gus · Feb 7, 2018

alexroberts0289 said:
View attachment 1355747 For reference, my 182 is making 201.5bhp with the following: SM Inlet, 197 cams, ramair filter, RS192 exhaust, de-restricted CAT, Engine Dynamics custom remap.
The dyno graph shows 3 lines with basic supporting mods; Lowest run at 179bhp with supporting mods and rstuner map, middle run at 190bhp with previous + SM Inlet, Best run at 201.5bhp with previous and 197 cams.

Was pretty pleased with the outcome! Especially considering Andy at Engine Dynamics said it had originally been a little down on power with the mods and rstuner.

That is really impressive. The gains are well worth it in your case. How does it feel to drive compared to before you had the mods and remap done.

Also is there any issues with fitting the SM Inlet and driving around on it without having the remap done. I know you wont see any gains till the remap but will it have any adverse effects on the engine or anything?

bloke · Feb 7, 2018

Gus said:
To have something like that made in the uk would cost thousands wouldnt it?

nope, you can get better custom fabricated for a lot less than you'd expect.

vroomtshh · Feb 8, 2018

bloke said:
nope, you can get better custom fabricated for a lot less than you'd expect.

I had a couple made on my last car and think I paid £500 for both. 2nd time included CFD modelling to improve over the first time

Aydon182 · Feb 8, 2018

alexroberts0289 said:
View attachment 1355747 For reference, my 182 is making 201.5bhp with the following: SM Inlet, 197 cams, ramair filter, RS192 exhaust, de-restricted CAT, Engine Dynamics custom remap.
The dyno graph shows 3 lines with basic supporting mods; Lowest run at 179bhp with supporting mods and rstuner map, middle run at 190bhp with previous + SM Inlet, Best run at 201.5bhp with previous and 197 cams.

Was pretty pleased with the outcome! Especially considering Andy at Engine Dynamics said it had originally been a little down on power with the mods and rstuner.

Great result, Engine dynamics rollers seem to be quite accurate aswell from my experience, no wild torque figures or anything. I knew this setup could crack 200 bhp, it did a long time ago on the 197 cams + RS2 inlet. Seems the RS2 / SM inlets dont seem to want to cooperate with 438 cams a bit like how ITB's never really liked the 438 cams either hence why 421's were a big trend with ITB's as they made the power.

I bet if you stuck arp rod bolts and raised the limiter to 8k rpm you could almost see 210 bhp on that setup.

bloke · Feb 8, 2018

Aydon182 said:
I knew this setup could crack 200 bhp, it did a long time ago on the 197 cams + RS2 inlet.

mine did 201bhp on standard cams with the first type of inlet he did.

JP83 · Feb 8, 2018

bloke said:
mine did 201bhp on standard cams with the first type of inlet he did.

Hopefully that's the one I have! Lol.

bloke · Feb 8, 2018

JP83 said:
Hopefully that's the one I have! Lol.

this was possibly the first one? it's the early type he did, the newest one is the third one. got a pic of yours? main difference on the first two is the inlet is slightly bigger on the second one.

JP83 · Feb 8, 2018

bloke said:
this was possibly the first one? it's the early type he did, the newest one is the third one. got a pic of yours? main difference on the first two is the inlet is slightly bigger on the second one.

Will grab a pic tonight. I bought mine from @Bear Head and I believe he got it in the group buy?

Bear Head · Feb 8, 2018

JP83 said:
Will grab a pic tonight. I bought mine from @Bear Head and I believe he got it in the group buy?

It was from the group buy mate.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

alexroberts0289 · Feb 11, 2018

Gus said:
That is really impressive. The gains are well worth it in your case. How does it feel to drive compared to before you had the mods and remap done.

Also is there any issues with fitting the SM Inlet and driving around on it without having the remap done. I know you wont see any gains till the remap but will it have any adverse effects on the engine or anything?

Gus, apologies for my slow reply. Because I introduced one mod at a time, I phased the power in and so it wasn't such a large increase at once. However , each time I was surprised at what it did to the driving. When I first fitted the SM Inlet (the original group buy one) it was with the rstuner map and it drove fine, no running issues, but I got it mapped swiftly after to make the most of the increased airflow.

Low down power is as expected, not much difference, but the sound the inlet makes is quite different to the standard inlet, I love it.
High end, once above 4k rpm, it gets very exciting and pulls excitingly all the way to the limiter.
@Aydon182 I think you're right, and it would really benefit from the extra 500rpm, but engine longevity would be a worry at 8k rpm for me. Its on 102k miles at the moment. Should it go bang, then yes, I'll definitely be uprating bits!

bloke · Mar 25, 2018

JP83 said:
I have yet to fit the SM inlet I purchased to my 172, but before I do I was wondering whether anyone was running one, with Group N timing?

Is anyone running just the SM inlet on standard timing, and running a standard(ish) 1*2 on Group N timing?

@bloke do you have any Dyno graphs for the above?

Basically wanting to know if one of those mods would cancel out the other if both were fitted.

don't know if you've seen the thread but just had a 172 on normal inlets done on group n timing, before and after graph speaks for itself.

Search

Search

Group N timing and SM inlet

JP83

South Central-Oxfordshire

Chambers_RS

bloke

Gus

bloke

JP83

South Central-Oxfordshire

NorthloopCup

R3k1355

Absolute wetter.

Tim.

EVO 4LEX

WhiskySniffer

bloke

WhiskySniffer

bloke

NorthloopCup

Aydon182

alexroberts0289

Gus

Gus

bloke

vroomtshh

Aydon182

bloke

JP83

South Central-Oxfordshire

bloke

JP83

South Central-Oxfordshire

Bear Head

alexroberts0289

bloke

Similar threads