Alignment

Louis · Oct 6, 2017

Going to Bram tomorrow for my alignment doing and i'm getting mixed messages about what sort of settings?

I was thinking 2 degrees camber, with 15 mins out total?
I've heard 15 mins either side toe, and from others 10 total. I just want to make sure it's all setup right.

It's just for fast road use, i don't do moon miles. I have camber bolts, and will be fitting solid topmounts in the morning. Running 2118s and cooksports.

STEVE.M · Oct 6, 2017

There you go.

Louis · Oct 6, 2017

Yeah, i don't understand what that's actually telling me.
I'm thinking of just going -2 camber, -.10 total toe out

White16valver · Oct 6, 2017

STEVE.M said:
There you go.

Awesome guide, thanks for posting :up:

JamesBryan · Oct 6, 2017

-15 either side! f**k that

12 mins total toe out and -1.5 degree camber.

That gets me 2:07 round Oulton Park, so I’m sure it’ll get you down the road just fine.

dann2707 · Oct 7, 2017

15 mins either side is what I ran (as you know Louis) and as people will back me up when I say I was overtaking most people at CSF a few years back. Car handled absolutely unbelievably well with no adverse effects to tread wear.

JB21 · Oct 7, 2017

JamesBryan said:
-15 either side! f**k that

12 mins total toe out and -1.5 degree camber.

That gets me 2:07 round Oulton Park in project cars, so I’m sure it’ll get you down the road just fine.

Changed for reality...:tongueout:

JB21 · Oct 7, 2017

For a road car I'd just set it up as it came out the factory TBH as attached above. I run - 2.5 camber and 10 mins toe out either side and it's a pig on the road, just follows the camber of the road and any other imperfections. Great on track though!

JamesBryan · Oct 7, 2017

dann2707 said:
15 mins either side is what I ran (as you know Louis) and as people will back me up when I say I was overtaking most people at CSF a few years back. Car handled absolutely unbelievably well with no adverse effects to tread wear.

How did you drive that! -30 mins is very aggressive.

Louis · Oct 12, 2017

Soo I'm going for tracking on Saturday. - 2 camber and 10 mins toe out a good idea? Or slightly more tour out? 12 mins?

JamesBryan · Oct 12, 2017

-12 is standard from factory.

Louis · Oct 12, 2017

What are the effects of more or less toe?

imprezaworks · Oct 12, 2017

http://en.intraxracing.nl/techniek/camber,-caster,-toe-intoe-out/

Louis · Oct 12, 2017

imprezaworks said:
http://en.intraxracing.nl/techniek/camber,-caster,-toe-intoe-out/

Great read. Thanks Dan

imprezaworks · Oct 12, 2017

You have my PayPal

leedsboy · Oct 13, 2017

Louis' said:
Soo I'm going for tracking on Saturday. - 2 camber and 10 mins toe out a good idea? Or slightly more tour out? 12 mins?

Where ya going for it doing?

Louis · Oct 13, 2017

allcartyres. Brad hasnt been able to fit me in this weekend as he's racing and i'm going to london on sunday night so want it right.

Louis · Oct 14, 2017

Well I just got back after my aligment and it's good and bad news.

All went smoothly and I got -2 front camber and -12 total toe out, but both were new parts so easy enough.
The rear however is a bit of a problem, it apears to be our pretty badly? I'm still getting a slight pulling left (even after going back once) but this must be down to the rear end. Is my hub bent? What shall I be looking for to resolve this?

Im going to head back next weekend and just make sure nothing has moved since coming off the the ramps but otherwise nothing can be done?

Here's some pics of before and after.

After

STEVE.M · Oct 14, 2017

If you get busy with some shims, left hand rear with a total of 1.5 degrees will give you - 0.35 toe and the same -2.26 camber, and for the right hand rear 2.0 degrees to give you -2.28 camber, with 0.25 degrees to give you 0.28 negative toe on the assumption that they are machined that accurately!
@Louis'

STEVE.M · Oct 14, 2017

PMS supply shims in 10, 20, 30 & 60 ( 1 degree ) increments, so could improve on the above.
http://www.pure-motorsport.co.uk/clio-2-rs182/clio-2-rs182-suspension/clio-2-rs-camber-toe-shim.html

imprezaworks · Oct 14, 2017

As said mate.

Bent hub
Or fix with above.

@JamesBryan

hipwell · Oct 14, 2017

Could also be a bent beam or bent where the stub mounts on the beam.

Mine was out pretty bad and I fixed it with shims from pms

imprezaworks · Oct 14, 2017

Yeah that’s also an option too

JamesBryan · Oct 14, 2017

f**k me that's bent!

I bet you can see the toe on that side with a degree of angle.

hipwell · Oct 14, 2017

JamesBryan said:
f**k me that's bent!

I bet you can see the toe on that side with a degree of angle.

Mine was quite obvious to the eye.

Louis · Oct 14, 2017

Just been out washing the car and you're right, it is quite noticeable to the eye. To be honest i've never really looked before but the car has always felt a little 'odd' handling wise. Kind of squirmy in the rear under breaking, but i put it down to the budget tyres.

What is the best way to go? @STEVE.M's idea is good with just using shims, but am I best off finding the route cause of the problem?

It seems kind of silly going back to the alignment place when the rear end is so messed up. What would others do?

Louis · Oct 14, 2017

On thinking, that disc did seem to take a little persuasion to come off the stub, related? The little spacer behind was also bent in slightly.

imprezaworks · Oct 14, 2017

Depends how far you want to go. Could be a new beam, stub axle etc.

Or throw a shim in and job done.

Louis · Oct 14, 2017

imprezaworks said:
Depends how far you want to go. Could be a new beam, stub axle etc.

Or throw a shim in and job done.

I'll get it measured up tomorrow to see what the score is. I hope it's just a bent stub axle, as that's cheap and easy. I presume i'll be getting uneven tyre wear with it like this? Travelling to london tomorrow...

imprezaworks · Oct 14, 2017

Yeah ref the tyre wear but wouldn’t happen over night.

It’s not uncommon so don’t be to pissed off mste

Louis · Oct 14, 2017

Yeah i've seen it's fairly common as they're old cars, usually with chavs for PO's haha. I just want it all to be right, and not 'bodged'.

imprezaworks · Oct 14, 2017

Get a rear stub axle and rule that out

STEVE.M · Oct 14, 2017

imprezaworks said:
Get a rear stub axle and rule that out

Better to shim, 5 @£17.50 by my calculations. Job done.
If it`s the beam that twisted, you are back to square one & out of pocket, not to mention time wasted, and alignment fee down the pan.
Most shells get weighed in with the beam still attached, and you could probably get one for nothing if you are prepared to remove it, but then there is no certainty that it will be straight.

imprezaworks · Oct 14, 2017

It be worth trying the stub axle rather than sticking a load of shims in.

Get the company to recheck once fitted. If they are half decent they won’t charge you.

If it was slightly out I’d agree getting a shim fitted.

Louis · Oct 14, 2017

I'm going to give them a call on monday and let them know that it's still pulling and get it back on to be checked next weekend. If I can get a new stub on in the meantime that's perfect. Surely having the front toe perfect along with the camber means that the problems at the rear 100%

imprezaworks · Oct 14, 2017

The issue will be the rear

STEVE.M · Oct 15, 2017

There is always the possibility that shims have been fitted in the past, and someone has stripped it down without realising their purpose, and has reassembled it with the shims aligned in the wrong position.
@Louis'

imprezaworks · Oct 15, 2017

Thinking outside the box, I like it.

JB21 · Oct 15, 2017

4 shims should sort that. 1 x 60 min (1deg) + 1 x 10 min for the NSR toe and 2 x 60 min shims on the OSR to get the camber even. Done.

Louis · Oct 15, 2017

I have recently just fitted 10mm spacers on the backend, but they were 2nd hand. I checked and I'm sure they didn't have any camber, surely it'd be fairly obvious? The edge would visible chamfer off?

Thanks for the help so far everyone. I've got a stub on the way too.

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