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Icemans Britcar Endurance project 182



  Golf GTD Mk7
yeah Mark, 15's will be lighter and imo the car handles better on them on track. You have to use Dunlops? That's a random reg, but they probably sponsor it and make that a requirement I guess. These are just as good as r888's. Not sure what their longevity is like though. I'm sure they would last longer than slicks though. It's all doing to depend on your fuel load at the end of the day. Any thoughts on tank size and mounting/position yet?

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Produ...oogle&utm_medium=Base&utm_campaign=Motorsport


Chris and Nicks cars look nice. Are they fully race spec'd DIY jobbies? You might struggle if you're using them for spares though as a few things vary on the ph1. At least you got the 182 without cup packs, so suspension and hubs are the same. I think the drivetrain is the same also, if not very similar, but don't quote me on that.
 
  phase 1 172 sport
Good luck with the project but i think i would go on race cars direct and get a race prepared car but thats me.GOOD LUCK MATE
 
  BMW Z4
yeah Mark, 15's will be lighter and imo the car handles better on them on track. You have to use Dunlops? That's a random reg, but they probably sponsor it and make that a requirement I guess. These are just as good as r888's. Not sure what their longevity is like though. I'm sure they would last longer than slicks though. It's all doing to depend on your fuel load at the end of the day. Any thoughts on tank size and mounting/position yet?

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Produ...oogle&utm_medium=Base&utm_campaign=Motorsport


Chris and Nicks cars look nice. Are they fully race spec'd DIY jobbies? You might struggle if you're using them for spares though as a few things vary on the ph1. At least you got the 182 without cup packs, so suspension and hubs are the same. I think the drivetrain is the same also, if not very similar, but don't quote me on that.


Cool Ill go with 15's then when I need them. Just stripped the engine today and subframe and took the lot to the powder coaters :) Should look nice when done. Need to tack in this Oreca cage next, anyone know what the large plates are for? Floor reinforcement underneath is my guess?

best
Mark.

PS
Nick and Chris's cars are home builds like mine.
 
I'd have gone straight out and bought something like this. Then would have put all my spare time into testing and getting all the drivers upto speed, getting in a few sport and saloon races in during the season......

dsc_0194.jpg

dsc_0091.jpg
 
  BMW Z4
That pic has given me some ideas for a switch panel and dash thanks. As for buying it yes I could have but then I would not have had the enjoymnet I have had over the past few days working on my project or the lessons im learning from doing that either. If I bought anything it would be This :D

When I have some experience I will.
 
We have the R-Sport switch panels in stock as we've swapped so many out for membrane panels now.

If you buy an X85 CC car you still need to find 15K - 20K to make it an endurance car so its not as cost effective as it first seems. There's an interview between VBH and myself floating about somewhere where I discuss the costs of a proper endurance X85 but summing up to run it as a pro car for a 24 hr it's £30K of costs and another £60K to build one from a new X85. A standard X85 is not a competitive 24hr car unfortunately.
 
  BMW Z4
We have the R-Sport switch panels in stock as we've swapped so many out for membrane panels now.

If you buy an X85 CC car you still need to find 15K - 20K to make it an endurance car so its not as cost effective as it first seems. There's an interview between VBH and myself floating about somewhere where I discuss the costs of a proper endurance X85 but summing up to run it as a pro car for a 24 hr it's £30K of costs and another £60K to build one from a new X85. A standard X85 is not a competitive 24hr car unfortunately.

Can you do me the dash too? ;)
 
Can you do me the dash too? ;)

The dash is very limitied, it's a crippled MM DDU unit so doesn't have 90% of the functionality of the retail version. It's also TFT so you can't see it in direct sunlight. Much better option is the GEMS OLED units which are fantastic and we have used them in an OEM and two motorsport projects last quarter with great success.

Regarding steering rack etc. best bet would be to use the DCI rack and fit it out with a DC Electronics EPAS system to provide power assistance. We've found them extremely reliable in motorsport use and you WILL want some form of PAS if you're doing 2 - 3 hour stints!! You'll have slightly more lock to lock but with the EPAS you still regain the ability to "chuck" the wheel to catch an oversteer moment LOL
 
good luck with this, would be interesting to see how it goes, as some have said deep pockets will be needed to achieve the 250 - 200 bhp your looking for without boost, but then again youve got an aston so your pockets are deeper than most and if your sharing the costs out between 3 or 4 of you its not too bad. all looking good so far, keep us all updated as how your getting on
 
good luck with this, would be interesting to see how it goes, as some have said deep pockets will be needed to achieve the 250 - 200 bhp your looking for without boost, but then again youve got an aston so your pockets are deeper than most and if your sharing the costs out between 3 or 4 of you its not too bad. all looking good so far, keep us all updated as how your getting on

I still maintain a good 230bhp endurance spec engine is what you want for this. It'll be bomb proof for circa 8K KMs, have excellent response, a good fuel burn rate and is achievable for sensible costs (built, dyno'd and in the car with loom and ECU for circa £7K). Essentially you're looking at a built bottom end with a sensible cylinder head spec, sensible cams, nice exhaust manifold and a good induction/filtration setup. More importantly all those bits are fairly off the shelf so you don't get into the massive cost issues that come with producing bespoke components for the engine package and even more importantly you aren't at the mercy of the lead times to produce more should you managed to break an engine.
 
  TrackCar & F30 330d
What manual steering rack will fit on this 182?

I have used a different set up than the ones mentioned allready.

I have used a Volov 440 or 480 alternator bracket and tentioner, a 172 cup alternator. and then I have kept the 182 standard rack removed all the pipes filled the rack with PAS fluid to keep it loobed, blocked off the holes and then done this to two of the holes in the rack so the fluid can move when you turn the rack.

DSC00497.gif


It does work and a few lads on here use the same stuff for their track cars and they say its fine if your moving. obviously its heavy if your stood still and trying to move the wheel.

I have tryed getting my 182 as light as possiable and i have a project thread. It might be of some use to you.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...spy-s-ITB-d-amp-Caged-182-Track-Car&highlight=
 

BIFCAIDS

ClioSport Club Member
  340i M-Sport & 182
This looks awesome so I'll keep an eye out for this thread Good Luck with it all.
 
  Golf GTD Mk7
I still maintain a good 230bhp endurance spec engine is what you want for this. It'll be bomb proof for circa 8K KMs, have excellent response, a good fuel burn rate and is achievable for sensible costs (built, dyno'd and in the car with loom and ECU for circa £7K). Essentially you're looking at a built bottom end with a sensible cylinder head spec, sensible cams, nice exhaust manifold and a good induction/filtration setup. More importantly all those bits are fairly off the shelf so you don't get into the massive cost issues that come with producing bespoke components for the engine package and even more importantly you aren't at the mercy of the lead times to produce more should you managed to break an engine.

What sort of exhaust mani you refering to Matt? You thinking 421's with bigger lifters?
It might be worth getting the head CNC'd properly (i know a guy, but you'll be looking at £700+VAT) to get a bit more power and efficience out for the engine. Plus while it's all in bits you don't need to worry about taking it to bits :)
 
  BMW Z4
I still maintain a good 230bhp endurance spec engine is what you want for this. It'll be bomb proof for circa 8K KMs, have excellent response, a good fuel burn rate and is achievable for sensible costs (built, dyno'd and in the car with loom and ECU for circa £7K). Essentially you're looking at a built bottom end with a sensible cylinder head spec, sensible cams, nice exhaust manifold and a good induction/filtration setup. More importantly all those bits are fairly off the shelf so you don't get into the massive cost issues that come with producing bespoke components for the engine package and even more importantly you aren't at the mercy of the lead times to produce more should you managed to break an engine.


No throttle bodies then?
 
  BMW Z4
The dash is very limitied, it's a crippled MM DDU unit so doesn't have 90% of the functionality of the retail version. It's also TFT so you can't see it in direct sunlight. Much better option is the GEMS OLED units which are fantastic and we have used them in an OEM and two motorsport projects last quarter with great success.

Regarding steering rack etc. best bet would be to use the DCI rack and fit it out with a DC Electronics EPAS system to provide power assistance. We've found them extremely reliable in motorsport use and you WILL want some form of PAS if you're doing 2 - 3 hour stints!! You'll have slightly more lock to lock but with the EPAS you still regain the ability to "chuck" the wheel to catch an oversteer moment LOL


No I meant the dashboard not the dash unit :)
 
  Golf GTD Mk7
No throttle bodies then?

Probably not needed mate no, but i'm sure it will be hard. Forged bottom end, decent ECU, Cams, Map, Decent Exhaust (btb do 182 ones off the shelf now, best flowing system out there :approve: ). few more bits i'd imagine. basically send it to matt ;)
 
  Golf GTD Mk7
Stock 421 would be fine imo.



Do you mean uprated valve springs??



Nothing wrong with hand working a cylinder head. If I was having one done it would be via APD.

Yeah uprated springs Tom, but do the not require bigger lifters?

CNC would be better you can't argue with that surely? I'm sure hand work would make a difference, but it's going to be nowhere near as accurate.
 
What series are you competing in to gain the six signatures you need to be able to enter the 24? Good luck with the build!

Very good point.

I would reiterate what others have said about buying something already built, but you're past the point of no return now. I fear you may get to a point in the build though, where you really can't face another weekend in a garage on your back covered in grease with a build deadline looming, and turning the project over to company to complete. I've been there.

Equally, I fear you may end up with uncompetitive car at the end of your build. Again, I've been there, first time builds are deceptively hard to make competitive for the novice.

However, you seem to have a very positive attitude towards it, and I wish you the best of luck. Listen hard to advice sent your way, but take everything with a pinch of salt.
 
  BMW Z4
Very good point.

I would reiterate what others have said about buying something already built, but you're past the point of no return now. I fear you may get to a point in the build though, where you really can't face another weekend in a garage on your back covered in grease with a build deadline looming, and turning the project over to company to complete. I've been there.

Equally, I fear you may end up with uncompetitive car at the end of your build. Again, I've been there, first time builds are deceptively hard to make competitive for the novice.

However, you seem to have a very positive attitude towards it, and I wish you the best of luck. Listen hard to advice sent your way, but take everything with a pinch of salt.


Ha ha yes I was there today :) I agree with you on the deceptively hard part ha ha so MUCH to do, but im enjoying it.

As for regs...

In Britcar regs it stated National B is needed which you get from one day of ARDS test don't you? Perhaps I'm mistaken here?


The Britcar Dunlop Production GTN Championship 2011 will operate to TWO classes - (as defined in section 32)

• Britcar Production GTN Class 1
• Britcar Production GTC Class 2

MSA Championship Permit no CHR2011/……..

MSA Race License UK Driver Grade Required

• Britcar Production GTN Class 1 National B
• Britcar Production GTC Class 2 National B

MSA Race License European Driver Grade Required

• Britcar Production GTN Class 1 National A equivalent (must have an EU flag on the license)
• Britcar Production GTC Class 2 National A equivalent (must have an EU flag on the license)

MSA Championship Grade D

Classes:

a) The name of the class will be “Britcar Production GTN”
Cars suitable for this class, subject to the power to weight ratio being acceptable, may include, but are not limited to:

GT4 / GT Cup / Super touring / 24hr Special / 996 Porsche Cup/ Ginetta G50

b) The name of the class will be “Britcar Production GTC”
Cars suitable for this class, subject to the power to weight ratio being acceptable, may include, but are not limited to:

Seat SuperCopa / Seat Leon Cupra / Renault Clio Cup / Honda Civic / Honda Integra


Best
Mark.
 
What sort of exhaust mani you refering to Matt? You thinking 421's with bigger lifters?
It might be worth getting the head CNC'd properly (i know a guy, but you'll be looking at £700+VAT) to get a bit more power and efficience out for the engine. Plus while it's all in bits you don't need to worry about taking it to bits :)

One of our 4-1 manifolds works very well for this kind of application. Stock 4-1 or 4-2-1 are okay for tuned road engines/track cars making 220bhp'ish but having played with exhaust manifold design a lot on a couple of projects previously there is a fair whack of power to be found there!

We have access to a 5 Axis at the moment and are planning to add one to the machine shop before the year is out (even though it's a decent Gallardos worth of money!).
 
Yeah uprated springs Tom, but do the not require bigger lifters?

CNC would be better you can't argue with that surely? I'm sure hand work would make a difference, but it's going to be nowhere near as accurate.

Mostly stock valve train is fine to 7800RPM which is all an engine in 230bhp spec would be turning, springs to our spec though as the cam profiles require it.

Regarding head work it doesn't make a difference how the metal is removed if it's removed in the wrong place which is what you tend to see on a lot of heads knocked out quick by tuner market box shifters. Also flow capacity on a flow bench doesn't tell the whole story, port velocities are massively important as is good cylinder scavenging to minimise residuals. We tend to use CNC with hand finishing in cost prohibitive places (head dependant) to make it easier to produce consistant port to port performance and build replacement heads quickly.... silly long lead times do not go down well in motorsport! ;)
 
No I meant the dashboard not the dash unit :)

The black GRP dash section the X85 runs? It's LHD for a start and attaches to the roll cage in the X85. It's also really expensive for what it is (circa 450 quid if memory serves).

If you want one doing our carbon shop can knock you something up in GRP for not too much more and it'd be RHD as well ;)
 
  Golf GTD Mk7
One of our 4-1 manifolds works very well for this kind of application. Stock 4-1 or 4-2-1 are okay for tuned road engines/track cars making 220bhp'ish but having played with exhaust manifold design a lot on a couple of projects previously there is a fair whack of power to be found there!

We have access to a 5 Axis at the moment and are planning to add one to the machine shop before the year is out (even though it's a decent Gallardos worth of money!).

Interesting on the mani! Cost ;) Pardon the ignorance, but 5 axis?
 
In Britcar regs it stated National B is needed which you get from one day of ARDS test don't you? Perhaps I'm mistaken here?
You get a National B by doing a one day ARDS test, and completing (nb: not starting) six races to the satisfaction of the clerk of the course whereby you can remove your novice cross. I don't think you're allowed to do the 24hr as a Novice. Best to call up and check. One of those six races can be substituted by spending a day as a marshal.
 
You get a National B by doing a one day ARDS test, and completing (nb: not starting) six races to the satisfaction of the clerk of the course whereby you can remove your novice cross. I don't think you're allowed to do the 24hr as a Novice. Best to call up and check. One of those six races can be substituted by spending a day as a marshal.

It's fine we've got drivers with a couple of sigs into Britcar 24hr, it did involve us having a chat with Tucker and co to sort it with a personal nod they weren't complete f**k wits but no major issue.
 
  Golf GTD Mk7
You get a National B by doing a one day ARDS test, and completing (nb: not starting) six races to the satisfaction of the clerk of the course whereby you can remove your novice cross. I don't think you're allowed to do the 24hr as a Novice. Best to call up and check. One of those six races can be substituted by spending a day as a marshal.

Topgear did Alex ;)
 


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