incy-spiders Clio 182 turbo

[incy-spider]

Small update, got helix clutch, head bolts and some seals on the way, will be able to put it all back together on Friday, engine in Saturday.

Put the new larger fuel pump in today, next I'll be installing my AFR gauge.

 

[incy-spider]

While waiting for parts I installed my AFR gauge, played with a few locations but went for one out of the line of sight, don't want to be driving along constantly looking at it flashing away, I know that sort if defeats the purpose but it's mainly there for the pin out on the module to my ECU for a bit more part boost drivability (cruising) anyway it's in there and that one display can be used for AFR, Boost, oil/water temp just add more little PLX modules!

 

[incy-spider]

Had a rethink and decided to go for a fuel reg on the rail instead if the I tank tripe, modified to bypass the in tank reg but still retaining the reservoir for fuel surge, cornering so will work a treat, put a return in too, waiting for the PH1 reg and clip to come tomorrow then I'll drill the return and reg holes in my 182 rail

 

[T.Trophy]

Are you sure you've put those pipes on correctly? As that top pic looks as though it's the same as standard?

With mine I just took a direct feed from the top of the pump straight out of the top of the sender.

 

[incy-spider]

Yeah mate basically the pipes stay where they are so that it's still able to feed the little reservoir but instead of any excess pressure being bled off by the in tank regulator it's done on the rail, you can just go straight from the pump to the output but then its missing the reservoir and can get fuel starvation on part empty tanks

 

[T.Trophy]

Fair enough my understanding of it was - Small reservoir/swirl pot that the pump sits in - Pump pressurises the sealed pot where the FPR sits - Fuel is fed out the top of the sender, anything beyond 3bar is pumped direct into the tank.

Your set up will simply vent fuel out of the FPR port and you'll never get any pressure at your rail.

 

[incy-spider]

No it won't because the port that feeds the reg is blocked up, hence the screw, the reg is also still in the hole, the part that the fuel pump draws from isn't sealed, the part above is.

 

[T.Trophy]

With the screw fitted you should be able to bin off the FPR.

You'll still get fuel surge though as regardless of piping in the FPR chamber when the pick up point on the pump starts sucking in air you'll get a pressure drop in the full system. With a bigger pump it just makes things worse as it can drain the small swirl pot that the pump sits in even quicker, medium to long right hand corners with less than half a tank was where I was having problems.

So whilst it will still work, it would achieved exactly the same by piping it from the pump straight out of the sender and bypassing the FPR chamber.

 

[incy-spider]

I didn't leave the reg out because the port the reg blows it's excess off would be open to drain/draw fuel above the level of the pump intake, the little red one way valve on the bottom of the sender does that job, the swirl pot is fed by the pump one side which then fills up giving a slight reserve to stop surging, which then goes to the output of the sender. It's exactly the same as how it would be if the reg was working in the tank apart from the reg will be on the rail. Works a treat

 

[T.Trophy]

Whilst I haven't got a sender unit to hand, I'm pretty sure they vent back to the tank, so if the feed to the FPR is blocked off then surely whether the FPR is in or out makes no difference?

I don't understand why you keep emphasising the small reserve in the FPR chamber as a fail safe against fuel surge?

 

[incy-spider]

Don't worry mate, I'm happy, it works you do what you do I'll do what I do, as you say without getting a PowerPoint presentation made up I can't really explain why I have done it like I have.. I nearly went around the route of just bypassing the lot but the chamber above the FPR is where a small amount of fuel is reserved not from where the pump picks up from.

 

[r0ss172]

medium to long right hand corners with less than half a tank was where I was having problems.

I had this problem in my turbo.... VERY annoying! i am under the impression that the Ph1 fuel set up doesnt suffer this. I think Laine managed to find a solution to this problem though....

 

[T.Trophy]

Ross I still had problems with the PH1 set up. As mentioned above the fuel pump sits in a small enclosure that acts as swirl pot. However it only has a small volume. With a standard pump when cornering the pump doesn't move enough fuel to actually drain it. With a 255LPH fuel pump it moves a lot more fuel and unfortunately drains the small enclosure a lot quicker, hence fuel starvation.

Incy, I know exactly what your saying the point I'm trying to make is fuel surge/starvation will still occur with your set up. You seem to be under the impression that by having a small reserve of fuel between the pump and fuel rail that this will some how help. As what I've said to Ross above, when the pump drains the enclosure and starts sucking up air you will get fuel starvation regardless of having a small reserve in the FPR enclosure.

The only way to get round it is either do trackdays with a full tank or fit a swirl pot and external pump like I've got on my new set up.

 

[incy-spider]

Okay, will see how it goes. Better to have a small swirl pot than no swirl pot though. No biggy to stick one on in the future if problems arise, main thing is I have the better fuel rail setup now so hopefully won't get any cold start issues etc.

Personally I think you are just jealous of my amazing screw modification haha

 

[T.Trophy]

I'm actually just jealous that you managed to re use the original pump pipes. Mine were a right mess by the time I got them off the pump LoL

 

[incy-spider]

I'm actually just jealous that you managed to re use the original pump pipes. Mine were a right mess by the time I got them off the pump LoL

Haha cheers! got a lovely heat gun that I can control the temp on really well, but clips are on just incase!

 

[r0ss172]

Its interesting that you say that... after speaking to Chip-mk1 about this, i found he is using the ph1 fuel set up still at 300bhp or so and doesnt suffer with any fuel starvation issues. I guess some are better than others?

 

[incy-spider]

I have run out of things to do while waiting for parts put the intercooler on for fun though

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

its a simple fix to stop this " fuel" issue, what you have done is perfect apart from the return from the top needs to have a pipe feeding the pick up of the pump, not just back into the tank. as steve says you will get starvation,

phase 1 sender units also work, but no need to use and the fuel sender electronic part will lie to you on how much fuel you have in the tank, steve again advised me of this many years back.

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

I'm actually just jealous that you managed to re use the original pump pipes. Mine were a right mess by the time I got them off the pump LoL

a little heat from the heat gun Steven, your heavy handed guns probably saw the better of you and then a fuel clip to ensure it seals back on

 

[incy-spider]

Was going to do that tomorrow, thinking of feeding the return back into where the reg is which goes straight into the pump pick up

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

Was going to do that tomorrow, thinking of feeding the return back into where the reg is which goes straight into the pump pick up

pipe down to the pick up to the side of the pump is where we fit

 

[incy-spider]

Cool, probably easier too!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Its interesting that you say that... after speaking to @Chip-mk1 about this, i found he is using the ph1 fuel set up still at 300bhp or so and doesnt suffer with any fuel starvation issues. I guess some are better than others?

Mine is standard ph1 setup other than a different pump. (Walbro 255)

I make a habit of not running mega low on fuel on track though which is where you would get surge issues.

 

[incy-spider]

Still no parts 225 map sensor in, fuel reg done...

 

[Renaulttony]

225cc injectors, or am I missing something. Surely they need to be substantially bigger to flow enough fuel for 230bhp . At least 360cc and they'll be pretty much maxed out.

 

[incy-spider]

Megane 225 injrctors

 

[incy-spider]

Think they are 390cc??

 

[Chip-mk1]

The meganea I've had measured (a few sets now so a reasonable sample) tend to be in the 425-450 range. Mainly around 430.

 

[incy-spider]

Rubbish day at work, put car outside to free a ramp up and some tool opened her door into my rear quarter panel, The Dentist is on his way.... Not because I punched her teeth out that's what the dent repair man is called fuuuuuming!!!

 

[Clio172T]

Love my low boost ED conversion. Been running it 18 months now never fails to make me smile!!

 

[incy-spider]

Love my low boost ED conversion. Been running it 18 months now never fails to make me smile!!

Awesome!! Standard management with AEM setup? What sort of figures did you get mate?

 

[incy-spider]

Just incase anyone wants to modify there ph2 fuel rail to fit a ph1 reg here's where tho drill!

 

[incy-spider]

Got my parts today, Andyrg had a bit of a numpty courier who had his map upside down and ended up in Scotland rather than Devon! so had to resend my parts, sent yesterday delivered today, great prices and service, cheers mate!

So back to the project, had a few hours spare today at lunch and after work, got the head on with thick MLS gasket, new cam seals in, new timing belt kit, new auxbelt kit. Got the clutch in, gearbox on. Fitted turbo, feed and return. Next thing to do is skat it in the bay but that will wait to possibly tomorrow!... Pics....

 

[George182]

Looking good!

 

[incy-spider]

One thing I did think about is, on the top of the cam cover breather there is a very small drilling the the inlet mani sits on, will this be okay under boost? Had it ever been thought about?

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

Glad we got there in the end. I received the other clutch today so happy days.

Looking great chris mate

 

[incy-spider]

Another lunch break another job done, got the engine back in, going to have to bend the heatshield about a bit but no dramas! Also booked in for mapping on Sunday the 16th of March @efi-parts

 

[Chi]

Great work fella

 

[incy-spider]

Great work fella

Cheers bud, getting there.. Boost pipes tmoro