Changing a CV joint, driveshaft still attached?

[guysy]

Its not a Clio but I would guess the answer will cater for most cars anyway.. I changed the CV boot on my girlfriends Suzuki alto, it was a temporary fix that i was hoping would be fine for a long time, unfortunately the bearings have been exposed to road dirt and water too long and the joint is clacking when turning.

Is it OK to wack the CV joint off whilst the drive shaft is on the car? (point it down and smack it off resting the shaft against the wishbone) (drivers side) then tease the clips back into the new one and tap the new joint on?

I know its not the best way.

Because Im trying to save time and the know how for this car online is few and far between, There is no help on the Suzuki forums.

I just want the car up and running again without too much hassle and without paying garage prices.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Dan519]

if the joint is changeable, and you can fit the new one safely, then there's no reason not to. I would personally just pull the shaft off if you've got that far

 

[Rob]

Can you get a picture of the shaft? As Danny says, if the joint is detachable/replacable then it's fine. I'd personally take it out of the GB just because it'd be so much easier to work on.

THE best option is just to get a whole new/second hand shaft though.

 

[Dan519]

THE best option is just to get a whole new/second hand shaft though.

why? Only have to do it on a clio as CV's aren't available

 

[Rob]

For the sake of sourcing a joint, packing it out, getting covered in s**t, I'd rather buy a full shaft and whack that in.

 

[coolspot007007]

There's a good tip on the cv joint guide on here if you're doing it in situ. Clamp the driveshaft with mole grips and lodge them in the hole in the middle of the wishbone to stop it moving when you knock the joint off the end.

 

[guysy]

When i changed the boot i undid the nut and pulled the whole hub and suspension shalf to one side, then i used a cone kit to stretch the boot over the CV joint. (saying that to show it wasnt a major ballache job on this car removing the suspension strut etc)

I assumed all CV joints where removable but obviously not, my girlfriend needs to keep costs to a bare minumum, thats why ive been doing the work for her, a pattern part cv joint is around £30 quid with the grease.

Seeing as the part is a available the outer CV should knock off the shaft yeah? I know its a messy job but I dont mind if I can get the job done.

I think it should just smack off then the new one with the clips teased in should hopefully go back in. When the cars at mine ill try and get a pic of the shaft.

Thanks for the other replies need to bed now will read them in the morning.

 

[guysy]

Got to do the job this weekend.

My main question is if I have to remove the drivers drive shaft will it be likely gear box oil will pour out? I don't know if its bolted on or anything, as I seem to remember on the Clio one side is one side isn't bolted on.

Im hoping things go to plan and i can tap the CV joint off in situe, I'm just hoping to point the CV down resting the shaft on the wishbone and smack the old one off drive shaft still in, grease the new CVJ, tease the clips in then tap the new one on?

I've read the guide someones posted on this forum and he had trouble with the drivers side shaft having to remove it, hopefully im lucky. ?

The question marks are there so any experienced people can confirm or deny?

Cheers.

 

[guysy]

Havent managed to get the job done this weekend as the courier service didn't deliver even though i paid for Saturday delivery

The joint has a fresh boot on with plenty of grease inside, doesn't make any noise in a straight line or have any vibrations or clicks, its only the tapping when tight right lock.

It should be fine for 2 weeks right although no one could say for definite i understand.

 

[ditz]

I do it on the car.. You have to check what sort of clip holds the joint on though, some are smack off and some have a circlip that you have to open out then just pull it off.
The second type are very awkward!! You have to feel round with your finger where the edge of the joint meets the spline and feel for an opening that has the clip in it.. If you can't find one it's a whack it job.

 

[ditz]

And yes it would probably last longer than the car clicking aslong as grease is still in there.. We have a little skoda runaround we use at work and that's been clicking the 15 years it's been there lol

 

[guysy]

Cheers Ditz that really helps mate On the replacement CV package picture, the replacement clip looks like the ends point up wards like / \, I guess these are the type that need separating?

I will have a go, if not ill wack it off and replace the clip. Ive seen some videos where the person has said dont bother changing the clip but if this is a separating clip would you advise to change it?

Also if i get to the point i need to remove the drive shaft will i need to drain the oil first?

Yeah after a long drive in the car its only doing it slightly I'd got it in my head it was worse because I hadnt driven the car for a while.

Thanks.

 

[ditz]

Yeah that sounds like the sort that wants seperating, if it is that sort it won't whack off you'll be hitting it forever.. Best to buy some proper pliers to separate them.. Imagine long nose pliers with the outer edges ground flat and the surfaces serrated to stop it slipping off.. Dead easy with proper pliers it should just pull straight off.
As for the clip, if it's the open out sort we think it is it's housed actually in the joint (not on the shaft) so yeah you might aswell put the new one in.
If its a whack off one the clips on the shaft and I tend not to change it.

Yeah the gearbox oil will come out of you chose to remove the shaft

 

[guysy]

Okay thanks for the info thats one thing i was wondering with the clip. Ill get some of these just incase.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-PIECE-C...s_Equipment&hash=item3f14ecb326#ht_903wt_1163

Do those look the sort?

Or? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pcs-1800...yMaking_GL&hash=item256c495883#ht_6933wt_1396

 

[guysy]

Fellas could do with some more help. Today I changed over the drivers CV thanks for the advise ditz, I would have been truely f**ked without the circlip pliers, however it still look me AGES and i rekon about 50 attempts to get it off.

Circlip was pinging off all the time and eventually when it came off i found the circlip wasnt designed to be tight in the cv housing so unless it was dead straight, each time the clip was catching on the housing :dead:

Horrible job... And guess what? the noise is still there lol.

I'm now baffled to what it could be, both outer track rods have been changed, and now the drivers CV joint is new, passengers CV joint does have a cable tie for the inner boot fixing so wondering if grease has escaped from there at one point :S

Have a listen anyone please... I'd like some opinions, I'm now thinking either side lower ball joints (which is a pain because i have to buy the whole lower arm) or possibly inner tie rod?

Volume needs to be up abit and noise is at 6 seconds in.

 

[ditz]

That's gonna be real hard to guess at without seeing it. Where abouts in Essex are you?

 

[guysy]

Im in Theydon Bois mate, but its the girlfriends car, shes only back every other weekend until her university year ends in a few weeks.

I think ill just have to take it to a garage and play dumb and hope they can spot the problem?, im thinking drivers inner tie or lower ball joints. At a push the other cv joint out or one of the inner cv joints :S

 

[ditz]

It won't be a balljoint (definately) I would say that can only be driveshaft related.. In my opinion its most likely to be an outer cv joint so by that logic the other side you havn't done.. Unlikely to be an inner joint being affected by steering like that. When they wear enough to cause play they tend to cause vibrations as they arent subject to the angles the outers are.
I have also come across a few weird ones where its a misaligned engine/gearbox where the whole lot is mounted too far one way or the other and when turning the engine leans against a shaft causing a noise. All a tad hard to explain and diagnose without seeing it though mate

 

[guysy]

Yeah i see what your saying mate, The noise is very rapid for something like a ball joint, not having experienced loads of different noises im just thinking of things that could be the noise so that rules out lower ball joints (although the drivers needs changing lol)

Do you think it could be an inner tie rod? ive done up down and left right tests on both the front wheels, and both the bearings sound ok too.

The car was driving fine up until a couple of months ago she pointed it out, and i thought ah no problem a nakerd outer track rod, but it became a more rapid knocking on acceleration under load, and upon finding the split boot which must have been that way for months or longer I hoped it was a definite.

Could possibly be the other side outer CV, the inner boot does have a cable tie on and there are some slight signs of leaking grease, but nothing like the drivers side which is why i suspected it.

I stripped the "old" outer cv joint and cleaned all the grease off, and apart from some very small signs of the bearings moving there's nothing majorly wrong.

This is a very noob question but when i had the drive shaft free I pulled the drive shaft in and out and there was a lot of movement, that's supposed to be like that right? not rock solid? It didnt feel like i was pulling the inner splines out, just like there was a movement.

And i really appreciate your replies mate you've been very helpful.

 

[Fred@BTM]

that sounds like something serious, but hardto tell!

 

[guysy]

f**k knows tbh Fred I've had my head under the car, spinning wheels and testing left to right up and down, and Im unsure of anything.

My girlfriends the second owner, her work colleague bought it from Suzuki new on an 04 plate, has been serviced well but being a cheap car from the start its questionable build quality.

Its a strange noise, clickling/clunking rapidly like you hear in the video, she will get it when reversing out of the drive when turning etc but fine in a straight line so suggests a CV problem?, when its just her she says its worse, when im in the passenger seat leveling out the weight its much less noise.

Could be the other side outer CV, if its not im out of my depth I think, i dont want to admit defeat though.

 

[Fred@BTM]

it's either something simple or something proper fucked, does it do it in neutral coasting?

 

[guysy]

Not in a straight line no, I can only replicate the noise myself driving in a tight full lock going right (and sometimes left) under acceleration blips.

When the missus drives it, it does it on corners but she says because im in the passengers side it makes it less obvious.

Giving an example, that noise you hear at 6 seconds, youl hear a blip of it reversing out a drive turning left, then when turning a corner right slightly, but if i want to hear the noise if i put it in second and accelerate a bit under tight lock it makes the clack clack clack sound. Im wondering if its the passenger CV outer.

What do you think?

On this car the lower ball joint and inner something mount is like this

I did wonder if it was the right side bush in the photo clacking against the housing but like Ditz said it sounds more CV related.