There are a few guys I know of running about 0.5-0.6 bar on standard internals with no problems. They probably had the common sense to fit ARP's though rather than just carry on regardless like me! I think I'm actually running 6psi which is only 0.4 bar not 0.5. Probably going to end up going N/A next year anyway.
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Ph1 172 Track Car. Next Year I Go Racing - Hopefully!
Seems about right then if I am running 0.4bar at 234bhp and 190lbft
I managed .9 bar on mine before the supercharge ate itself.
182cup & 172 racecar
I know of one that was much less bar than that, and it imploded itself after 10 mins at Bedford!!
Fun whilst it was going though.
Fun whilst it was going though.
What less than 0.4bar Tony? Would hardly be worth bothering with much less than that.
I have gone about as low as I would want to go, otherwise I just wouldn't get any worthwhile gains.
0.9 bar yes I can imagine that wouldn't last long on standard internals.
Renault 5 gt turbo
Good point Dave.
Theres a Renault 5 gt turbo with the same set up as me running 30psi and making over 300bhp. This is a road car, would be very surprised if it would last more than a of lap on track getting ragged..
182cup & 172 racecar
James, I think it was a fairly old engine, so ran it low anyway, but it didn't last long.
Cub.
ClioSport Moderator
@dinger - not sure what your point is.
Mines a road car, yes. But WOT on a trackday is the same as WOT in a race tbh. Its WOT.
I recognise 15 mins solid of racing is different to 15 mins road driving. No one said it was the same.
But I'd say 4 trackdays lasting all day more than makes up for 15 mins of racing in terms of engine wear.
Mines a road car, yes. But WOT on a trackday is the same as WOT in a race tbh. Its WOT.
I recognise 15 mins solid of racing is different to 15 mins road driving. No one said it was the same.
But I'd say 4 trackdays lasting all day more than makes up for 15 mins of racing in terms of engine wear.
Having done both track days and now racing, I agree.
Yes the car gets pushed slightly harder in a race situation than on a trackday, and obviously much harder than it would on the road. But a whole day open pitlane trackday would definitely put more overall strain on an engine than 2x15min races and 1x15 min quali session.
My grey one did a full open pit lane day at bedford. Lasted fine.
Lend James your engine for Thruxton then! Lol
My point is that the internals were never designed to see that kind of pressure or heat and it's only a matter of time before something gives in.
If I drove a trackday like I drive a race day then it wouldn't be long before they threw me off. Fact!
I understand that James wants to stick with the supercharger but don't go trying to re invent the wheel. Motorsport is expensive enough without all the extras and don't like to see anyone needlessly throwing money away.
Engine failure does not make for a great race day but when your pushing the limits to try and save money it just doesn't make sense to me
Cub.
ClioSport Moderator
I'm not debating whether running a charger is a good idea in a race series from a cost perspective, and tbh it's upto James whether he runs one or not. I personally would run N/A in a race series, but largely due to the regs issue.
My issue is your statement of "a standard car won't last long on track with those compression ratios". It will, if it's been set up right, and the map is right etc. I deliberately chose a level of boost and a compression ratio that the internals could tolerate to some degree. Yeah, they won't last forever, but they'll last a hell of a lot longer than you're implying. A non-forged ITB'd and cammed engine won't last forever. That's the way extracting power from these engines works, sadly.
And my reference to track was not "how you may drive" it was attempting to say that engine wear on trackdays over a period of time will equal engine wear sustained in a race meeting, if you do enough trackdays to races as a ratio.
I'm not trying to "re-invent" any wheels, as said above, if I raced it wouldn't be boosted. That's James decision whether he wants to run boosted or NA.
But saying boosted cars are unreliable and wouldn't last 15 minutes on track because they are road cars is simply not true.
Cub.
ClioSport Moderator
Oh don't worry, I've not taken it personally
Just "reprezentin" the boosted crew....It's interesting to debate things about. I do wish the F4R was more tolerable to engine mods full stop, but it's a trade off to the great handling I suppose. Dieppe wasn't going to get both right.
Knowing my luck, my engine will go pop at Anglesey 😂
Tbh the engine is more strained with cams and bodies than boost.
Tomotek
ClioSport Club Member
Ooh I do love a healthy debate! Thanks for all the views and advice chaps.
Going to stick with the charger for this season. I think I was unfortunate that the engine blew at brands, but in hindsight I guess I was asking for trouble running on standard rod bolts.
Going to source another standard engine and just change the cambelt, dephaser and water pump from my old engine to the new one and that will do for now. At least standard engines are fairly cheap and easy to come by. If I had built a forged lump and this had happened I would be very annoyed. But I guess it would have been less likely to have blown with forged internals, so swings and roundabouts really.
Going to stick with the charger for this season. I think I was unfortunate that the engine blew at brands, but in hindsight I guess I was asking for trouble running on standard rod bolts.
Going to source another standard engine and just change the cambelt, dephaser and water pump from my old engine to the new one and that will do for now. At least standard engines are fairly cheap and easy to come by. If I had built a forged lump and this had happened I would be very annoyed. But I guess it would have been less likely to have blown with forged internals, so swings and roundabouts really.
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Russ Rallye
ClioSport Club Member
Sorry to see its chucked a rod James, will you be out at thruxton?
Russ
Russ
Hopefully mate, providing I can get another engine sorted and installed in time.
Would be a shame to miss it, you don't get many opportunity's to do Thruxton and I have never done it before.
So I have had a bit of trouble sourcing a good second hand engine. I've had 3 in total now and all have had some kind of problems.
However I have managed to put together one good engine!
My place now looks like an engine graveyard!
Engine assembled and on the stand, all that's left to do is fit the obligatory ARP rod bolts (won't be making that mistake again).
I haven't bothered trying to make this engine look pretty by painting it or anything, as I will probably be building another one later this year ready for next season. It's just had a bit of a clean and all new gaskets, seals, dephaser and cambelt.
Hopefully I will get it all back in the car at the weekend and ready for Thruxton in a few weeks.
However I have managed to put together one good engine!
My place now looks like an engine graveyard!
Engine assembled and on the stand, all that's left to do is fit the obligatory ARP rod bolts (won't be making that mistake again).
I haven't bothered trying to make this engine look pretty by painting it or anything, as I will probably be building another one later this year ready for next season. It's just had a bit of a clean and all new gaskets, seals, dephaser and cambelt.
Hopefully I will get it all back in the car at the weekend and ready for Thruxton in a few weeks.
182cup & 172 racecar
:wink:
Renault 5 gt turbo
Nice work James, see you at Thruxton....
Looking forward to it mate. I have never been to thruxton even for a trackday so should be interesting. Another track to learn during qualifying!
I imagine I am not going to be the only one who hasn't driven it before though, it's not a track that come's up very often.
Renault 5 gt turbo
I found this vid very helpful when I was in a similar position
It is a great circuit.
It is a great circuit.
TARC Thruxton Race Report June 2015
Scrutineering.
For the second time in a row this was straight through without a single issue so very pleased about that.
Qualifying
This didn’t really go to plan at all. I ended up 17th, which was very poor. I was not happy at all.
I put it down to 3 things. I was on the wrong tyres, I have never been to Thruxton before and didn’t know the track, and after the disaster at Brands I was taking it very easy, as I just wanted to get through quali and make the race.
Race 1
I got a bad start and lost a few more places early on. Things just seemed to be getting worse and worse. I still didn’t know the track at all and found it very difficult to pick braking points, turn in points, etc.
Then gradually I started to get more confident, I picked up some speed and started working my way through the field. I made up 10 places in all going from 17th to 7th. So a much better starting point for race 2. I was sorry to see Tony go off as he was absolutely flying, and I think he set the fastest lap time in race 1 as well. Camera battery died on the last lap so video is cut short slightly.
Race 2
This was a great race, I actually got a good start for a change and passed clarkey and Sonny straight away, moving me up to 4th place. The 3 of us had some great close racing and I ended up finishing 4th overall. The highest place clio, and just missing out on a podium by about 2 secs. My fastest lap was a 1.32.something.
Summary
What a great day. I was a bit worried at the start after a very disappointing quali session but then it just got better and better.
I did get a great result in race 2 but to be honest Thruxton and me didn’t really get on. It’s a great track and Church is one of those corners you really need to experience, but I just didn’t gel with the circuit.
I did get better through the day, but I don’t think I drove well at all. I have never had so much trouble learning a circuit before. I think there was a lot more time left in the car if only I could have extracted it. I hope we get a chance to go back there again as with a bit of practice I think I could definitely do much better.
The car did seem to be going well but this new engine doesn’t seem to quite have the pull of the old one, and I am still under powered compared to the big boys, but it’s plenty to get me in the mix and have some fun, which is all I wanted.
James.
Scrutineering.
For the second time in a row this was straight through without a single issue so very pleased about that.
Qualifying
This didn’t really go to plan at all. I ended up 17th, which was very poor. I was not happy at all.
I put it down to 3 things. I was on the wrong tyres, I have never been to Thruxton before and didn’t know the track, and after the disaster at Brands I was taking it very easy, as I just wanted to get through quali and make the race.
Race 1
I got a bad start and lost a few more places early on. Things just seemed to be getting worse and worse. I still didn’t know the track at all and found it very difficult to pick braking points, turn in points, etc.
Then gradually I started to get more confident, I picked up some speed and started working my way through the field. I made up 10 places in all going from 17th to 7th. So a much better starting point for race 2. I was sorry to see Tony go off as he was absolutely flying, and I think he set the fastest lap time in race 1 as well. Camera battery died on the last lap so video is cut short slightly.
Race 2
This was a great race, I actually got a good start for a change and passed clarkey and Sonny straight away, moving me up to 4th place. The 3 of us had some great close racing and I ended up finishing 4th overall. The highest place clio, and just missing out on a podium by about 2 secs. My fastest lap was a 1.32.something.
Summary
What a great day. I was a bit worried at the start after a very disappointing quali session but then it just got better and better.
I did get a great result in race 2 but to be honest Thruxton and me didn’t really get on. It’s a great track and Church is one of those corners you really need to experience, but I just didn’t gel with the circuit.
I did get better through the day, but I don’t think I drove well at all. I have never had so much trouble learning a circuit before. I think there was a lot more time left in the car if only I could have extracted it. I hope we get a chance to go back there again as with a bit of practice I think I could definitely do much better.
The car did seem to be going well but this new engine doesn’t seem to quite have the pull of the old one, and I am still under powered compared to the big boys, but it’s plenty to get me in the mix and have some fun, which is all I wanted.
James.
182cup & 172 racecar
Good write up James.
I hadn't been there before either lol.
The grass is slippy.
I hadn't been there before either lol.
The grass is slippy.
Russ Rallye
ClioSport Club Member
Glad the car went well James. Seems to go well but were you short shifting? Didn't sound like you were using all the revs but might be because it's charged that it seems that way, not sand bagging were ya!
Russ
Russ
Russ Rallye
ClioSport Club Member
Might have just been the early laps tbh. It sounds good though, especially when heel and toeing it on the down change. You out at cadwell?
Russ
Russ
Ha ha, no definitely not sand bagging Russ, I wish I was!
Redline is set at 7600rpm and I was generally shifting around 7400ish. I was short shifting at times though - on the run out of certain corners or when in traffic, but generally I was giving it some stick! I did take it very easy in quali though.
I am 50/50 about cadwell at the moment, I should be at Silverstone either way though.
Redline is set at 7600rpm and I was generally shifting around 7400ish. I was short shifting at times though - on the run out of certain corners or when in traffic, but generally I was giving it some stick! I did take it very easy in quali though.
I am 50/50 about cadwell at the moment, I should be at Silverstone either way though.
182cup & 172 racecar
Yeah, you got in my way through Church in quali lol.
Yeah I know sorry about that, I did move over after for you though.
It's the k-tec bracket mate.
