Issues with Powerflex wishbone bushes

[Struggler]

So you jumped from the supplied sleeve not welded in to the apparantly discontinued flared sleeves that are imo too short.

have you not tired to supplied sleeves welded in?? which is the the recomended way to fit them by powerflex??!



you cen see from this pic, how short your sleeves are compared to how they should be!! perhaps you should tried unflared sleeves welded in in this manner!!

if powerflex are correct and the welds/sleeves are fine, and assuming the batch of polyeurethane wasnt faulty or they would know about it,

then that would mean it would have to be the bolt or subframe flexing to contact the wishbone, which tbh is incredibly unlikely.

[s0fty]

The way he has fitted them the wish bones are moving from side to side shredding the rubber bushes as there is nothing stopping them moving from side to side excessively.

The way they are on mine are spot on, is why they are still perfect 3 years on.

[DanielG]

So you jumped from the supplied sleeve not welded in to the apparantly discontinued flared sleeves that are imo too short.

have you not tired to supplied sleeves welded in?? which is the the recomended way to fit them by powerflex??!



you cen see from this pic, how short your sleeves are compared to how they should be!! perhaps you should tried unflared sleeves welded in in this manner!!

if powerflex are correct and the welds/sleeves are fine, and assuming the batch of polyeurethane wasnt faulty or they would know about it,

then that would mean it would have to be the bolt or subframe flexing to contact the wishbone, which tbh is incredibly unlikely.

The first time my purchased set was fitted, they were un-flared sleeves that were NOT welded in. These proceded to pop themselves out and bend the sleeves. My workshop decided that they weren't damaged enough to justify replacement and straightened the sleeves out, re-fitted and welded them back in. This was fine except I was still getting excessive movement because the the entire sleeve was actually flexing under load (note. it was NOT moving within the wishbone).

Powerflex then very kindly sent me a new set out and their tech guys decided it'd be good for them to make up a set of the sleeves but with the flared end to ensure the sleeve was unable to move within the wishbone (hence why mine are flared and most aren't).

Powerflex don't believe a longer sleeve would help what so ever. I asked them whether there was anything else within the suspension components that could be at fault and they said no.

As I say, we’re scratching our heads a little as well. From the pictures if just looks like you’ve been getting too much movement in the wishbone wish is causing the metal sleeve to foul on the chassis section. This in turn chews the bush up. It looks like it may be under braking that the problems are happening because of it being the rear bush that seemed a lot worse.

By using a harder material it will allow for less movement, meaning the gap between the outer sleeve and chassis should reduce less because of there ultimately being less movement in the wishbone.

See how you get on with the Black 95 one’s and if that cure it.....looks like it’s back to the drawing board and we’ll have to have a serious re-think.

[B19WAW]

fitment is the issue there, they've been fitted with too much bush poking out of the sleeve IMO

any chance you can put a pic up of some youve fitted....can see how much bush should be sticking out of the sleeve.....before i fit mine lol

[DanielG]

The way he has fitted them the wish bones are moving from side to side shredding the rubber bushes as there is nothing stopping them moving from side to side excessively.

The way they are on mine are spot on, is why they are still perfect 3 years on.

Longer sleeves won't stop my issue. Say you look at the wishbone from a birds eye view (so looking at the ground) the wishbone won't be just moving up and down. The force is being applied at the end of the wishbone and thus will be causing it to bend backwards (hence the bent sleeves on the rear bush). Longer sleeves would just make mean more sleeve being bent but perhaps with slightly less severity.

[s0fty]

Fitted and 3years on.

Bushes.jpg

[s0fty]

Longer sleeves won't stop my issue. Say you look at the wishbone from a birds eye view (so looking at the ground) the wishbone won't be just moving up and down. The force is being applied at the end of the wishbone and thus will be causing it to bend backwards (hence the bent sleeves on the rear bush). Longer sleeves would just make mean more sleeve being bent but perhaps with slightly less severity.

Dude u don't no what you on about. when your going over bumps your wishbones moving up and down and it can slide from side to side how you have them badly.

[Cup_Phil]

The point no one seems to f**king understand is THAT THE SLEEVE CANNOT GO CLOSER TO THE CHASSIS AND IT WILL NOT HELP IF IT GOES CLOSER. Going closer will just make my problem worse. They're pushed in from the inside because of the taper. I don't blame the workshop that fitted them what soever. They're one of *the* best suspension specialists in Melbourne and prepare countless race cars, I'd like to think they know what they're doing (esp given one of them owned a 182)

Seriously mate - you're a f**king moron

Everyone here is telling you you're wrong - and trying to HELP YOU
There's 4 shots on here alone showing how they SHOULD be fitted with the metal sleeve all the way to the edge of the bush - and you're still arguing saying it's impossible

What do you think we all did - go and make our own sleeves? LOL
I'm telling you how we fitted them - and how the instructions said to - press them in from the inside

I'm not arguing with you - I'm telling you EXACTLY what you did wrong - and so is everyone else - and you're acting like a jerk

[Cup_Phil]

Tapped in from the outside until they're level with the bush - CORRECT and ready to be welded



Pressed in from the inside - which is INCORRECT because you hit the wishbone before the sleeve is out far enough
End thread.

[s0fty]

lol. Mine where never tak welded eaither and there still spot on after 3 years. Mate you fubard them.

[Dan@519Automotive]

Delivered to me this morning





You've done it wrong

[Cup_Phil]

I didn't realise they'd flared the end of them now!
That might be why they're now saying to press them in from the inside - I bet that's awkward though

Is that there attempt at making them weldless?

[Dan@519Automotive]

It's probably to make sure people press them in straight, and in far enough

[s0fty]

So they flared the end, how are his so far out, look like somones not pressed them in far inuf nor straight, tbh they dont need flared ends if fitted correctly.

[stokie4ker]

Given that the outer sleeve is made of 22gauge mild steel it cannot provide any form of stability in the suspension in itself. It's only purpose is to contain the poly bush and stop it from expanding under pressure. Even if the bush was expanding I doubt it would cause the damage seen and could not possibly have bent the sleeve the way it has been.

Now lets think about this. In this image of your left hand side wishbone it looks like it has been forced inwards under a great deal of force.
IMG_6293.jpg
It isn't moving around freely in every direction but being pushed back against the central sleeve that the bolt goes through which has chewed up the bush and bent the outer sleeve.

As already suggested i'd make sure you have the correct diameter bolt, fit it facing the front of the car and also fit the thick shim. Also, didn't another Aussie have an issue with the rear most hole on the subframe becoming enlarged and elongated?

Also, as Fred asked, make sure its VF tight. You have a thick steel sleeve being compressed between a thick steel plate either side by a large, hi tensile bolt. The chances of stretching that bolt are pretty remote unless you use a very long lever or a very powerful impact driver. So get the bugger nice and tight.

If you are still able to move the wishbone in any direction other than up and down after that then I'd say your problem lies with either the wishbone itself or the subframe where the wishbone is attached to it. I'd be tempted to swap the wishbone to rule it out as the cause or at the very least give it a damn good inspection to make sure there are no cracks or splits anywhere but you may need to stress it in several directions to be sure.

If everything now feels solid but the bush still gets eaten then something else is causing the whole arm to give in the direction where the damage is occurring. Given how the bush and outer sleeve are damaged in your pic then like Powerflex said, it does look like your wheel is getting kicked out under hard braking causing a huge and unexpected pushing force on the rear bush and a matching pulling force on the front bush. If that was happening I would expect that you would notice such a harsh impact either from a loud knocking noise or through the steering wheel kicking to left.

[Andrewclio]

This is what powerflex have sent me the other day. You can see they have flared the sleeves and have sent me stronger/stiffer bushes, they said that is a 95 Polyurethane compared to the 80 which is used in the normal kit

[DanielG]

Seriously mate - you're a f**king moron

Everyone here is telling you you're wrong - and trying to HELP YOU
There's 4 shots on here alone showing how they SHOULD be fitted with the metal sleeve all the way to the edge of the bush - and you're still arguing saying it's impossible

What do you think we all did - go and make our own sleeves? LOL
I'm telling you how we fitted them - and how the instructions said to - press them in from the inside

I'm not arguing with you - I'm telling you EXACTLY what you did wrong - and so is everyone else - and you're acting like a jerk

Right. I'm the moron because I'm telling people that the way the sleeve has been designed (flared) and the way it's installed (from the inside) that it's impossible for the sleeve to come out further. Perhaps if you could all understand that little point we wouldn't be going around in circles.

lol. Mine where never tak welded eaither and there still spot on after 3 years. Mate you fubard them.

Yes, they are fubared. Did I do it? No. I paid some people money to go and do it so I could avoid this.

Delivered to me this morning

You've done it wrong

If this is the case, then either the idiots that fitted my sleeves didn't press them in all the way, or my sleeves were physically shorter. I will be able to confirm this later this afternoon as I plan on taking the wishbones off to have a better look at everything.

Given that the outer sleeve is made of 22gauge mild steel it cannot provide any form of stability in the suspension in itself. It's only purpose is to contain the poly bush and stop it from expanding under pressure. Even if the bush was expanding I doubt it would cause the damage seen and could not possibly have bent the sleeve the way it has been.

Now lets think about this. In this image of your left hand side wishbone it looks like it has been forced inwards under a great deal of force.
IMG_6293.jpg
It isn't moving around freely in every direction but being pushed back against the central sleeve that the bolt goes through which has chewed up the bush and bent the outer sleeve.

As already suggested i'd make sure you have the correct diameter bolt, fit it facing the front of the car and also fit the thick shim. Also, didn't another Aussie have an issue with the rear most hole on the subframe becoming enlarged and elongated?

Also, as Fred asked, make sure its VF tight. You have a thick steel sleeve being compressed between a thick steel plate either side by a large, hi tensile bolt. The chances of stretching that bolt are pretty remote unless you use a very long lever or a very powerful impact driver. So get the bugger nice and tight.

If you are still able to move the wishbone in any direction other than up and down after that then I'd say your problem lies with either the wishbone itself or the subframe where the wishbone is attached to it. I'd be tempted to swap the wishbone to rule it out as the cause or at the very least give it a damn good inspection to make sure there are no cracks or splits anywhere but you may need to stress it in several directions to be sure.

If everything now feels solid but the bush still gets eaten then something else is causing the whole arm to give in the direction where the damage is occurring. Given how the bush and outer sleeve are damaged in your pic then like Powerflex said, it does look like your wheel is getting kicked out under hard braking causing a huge and unexpected pushing force on the rear bush and a matching pulling force on the front bush. If that was happening I would expect that you would notice such a harsh impact either from a loud knocking noise or through the steering wheel kicking to left.

Finally, a more sensible reply. I'll get a chance to check the bolt (and fit it the correct way) later this afternoon. I do recall the subframe issue you're talking about. The issue apparently is/was that the wishbone mounting holes on the subframe become elongated over time. Guess I'll double check this later today.

And yes, my car is pulling and diving in a very odd way to the left when I brake hard. Powerflex believe it's only their bush at fault. I asked them whether it could be physical damage to the wishbone or another suspension component and they said no. They've also ruled out installation error (funny that, everyone here seems to know better which way they should be fitted and how much bush should be showing)

This is what powerflex have sent me the other day. You can see they have flared the sleeves and have sent me stronger/stiffer bushes, they said that is a 95 Polyurethane compared to the 80 which is used in the normal kit

This is exactly what I'll be receiving by the looks of it. I'm assuming you had a similar problem to me? Keep me posted on how these go for you.

[marcushookdale]

pics

[DanielG]

Stay tuned, I've got a video uploading to YouTube at the moment of the bush in action

[DanielG]