FF-Racing's 182 Racecar - Now it really won't get much better than this ;)

[Chip-mk1]

Glad you are managing to sound a bit more upbeat now mate

Fingers crossed all goes well at llandow.

[Kenny.s]

Nice write up James.

What have you done to stop the gear linkage being effected by the heat?
Haven't heard of this problem before, does your exhaust run particularly close to the linkage or is there no heatshield around that area?

[IcemanUK]

Re-Vigorised James? I like the sound of that, Where can I buy some? I don't heel and toe yet (got to learn that next) What clutch were you running? I am fitting a new paddle clutch with the new gearbox but have a helix organic in at the moment.

[Toastfrenzy]

Good write up James, hope all goes well at Llandow or you.

How does the damage occur when not matching revs to speed when downshifting? Don't heel and toe myself (never tried) and always 99.999% of time try to match speed\revs through braking....not changing gear to early @ high revs (with maybe a blip at the end of braking, if time) - I can't see how damage like that can happen - mating faces yes. Never taken a clutch out\gearbox or engine out etc.

May be I need to get a donor car to practice on after both yourself and Burpspeed have had to check\take their GB's out recently.

[Cup_Phil]

Wow - you did a proper job of that clutch!!!

I must be lucky - I'm terrible at heel+toe and my clutch is 60k old lol
Can't believe you did those sessions at anglesey with those bits of metal rattling around the box - that could have gone really badly!

[Tony Hunter]

Good write up James, hope all goes well at Llandow or you.

How does the damage occur when not matching revs to speed when downshifting? Don't heel and toe myself (never tried) and always 99.999% of time try to match speed\revs through braking....not changing gear to early @ high revs (with maybe a blip at the end of braking, if time) - I can't see how damage like that can happen - mating faces yes. Never taken a clutch out\gearbox or engine out etc.

May be I need to get a donor car to practice on after both yourself and Burpspeed have had to check\take their GB's out recently.

The property of matter by which it retains its state ofrest or its velocity along a straight line so long as it is not acted upon by an external force.

an analogous property of a force: electric inertia.

See, simple.

[Tony Hunter]

Good write up James, hope all goes well at Llandow or you.

How does the damage occur when not matching revs to speed when downshifting? Don't heel and toe myself (never tried) and always 99.999% of time try to match speed\revs through braking....not changing gear to early @ high revs (with maybe a blip at the end of braking, if time) - I can't see how damage like that can happen - mating faces yes. Never taken a clutch out\gearbox or engine out etc.

May be I need to get a donor car to practice on after both yourself and Burpspeed have had to check\take their GB's out recently.

The property of matter by which it retains its state of rest or its velocity along a straight line so long as it is not acted upon by an external force

an analogous property of a force: electric inertia.

See, simple.

[Toastfrenzy]

what, so i guess you don't know either???

FFs if you don't know, we're all doomed.

Or are you saying in a roundabout way that it spins and the act of pressing the clutch in is enough to cause it to shed parts\bits of metal?

Double tap? Learn that in the FI?

[BIGASH]

Glad you are managing to sound a bit more upbeat now mate

Fingers crossed all goes well at llandow.

Thanks mate I'm sure it will!

Nice write up James.

What have you done to stop the gear linkage being effected by the heat?
Haven't heard of this problem before, does your exhaust run particularly close to the linkage or is there no heatshield around that area?

Nothing in all fairness, we are swapping out the the Yanoo kit for the standard kit to eliminate it for now and then we will play around with it once we get the car reliable It run's quite close because of the relocated gear linkage and also no heat shield. Will see how it performs at Llandow and then work out a solution depending

Re-Vigorised James? I like the sound of that, Where can I buy some? I don't heel and toe yet (got to learn that next) What clutch were you running? I am fitting a new paddle clutch with the new gearbox but have a helix organic in at the moment.

Haha yes much better now thanks Mark It was just running an OE spec clutch, are you getting the one from K-tec with the Ally billet pressure plate? If so will be interested to see how you get on

Good write up James, hope all goes well at Llandow or you.

How does the damage occur when not matching revs to speed when downshifting? Don't heel and toe myself (never tried) and always 99.999% of time try to match speed\revs through braking....not changing gear to early @ high revs (with maybe a blip at the end of braking, if time) - I can't see how damage like that can happen - mating faces yes. Never taken a clutch out\gearbox or engine out etc.

May be I need to get a donor car to practice on after both yourself and Burpspeed have had to check\take their GB's out recently.

Thanks Pete

I'm not too sure haha, it has been explained to me a few times by various people but I don't understand I think it's just the snatching still which causes it. I'm not too sure myself in all fairness but I will work on getting the matching perfect and hopefully shouldn't be an issue again

I'm also on the lookout for something super cheap but always seem to miss them and want to get something I can sell at a profit after I have played lol!

Wow - you did a proper job of that clutch!!!

I must be lucky - I'm terrible at heel+toe and my clutch is 60k old lol
Can't believe you did those sessions at anglesey with those bits of metal rattling around the box - that could have gone really badly!

What can I say I try my best lol

I think it's just the fact it was getting abused for 40 mins non stop in the race and all getting pretty hot!

I know one chunk of the metal tried to make a bid for freedom from the gaiter for the clutch fork so that would of gone straight through the bonnet

The property of matter by which it retains its state ofrest or its velocity along a straight line so long as it is not acted upon by an external force.

an analogous property of a force: electric inertia.

See, simple.

Lol! I agree

[Tony Hunter]

Almost the same as revving it to 6k and dropping the clutch all the time. Get it.

What they teach you boys at school these days.

[Toastfrenzy]

gotit, fanks....(left school at 15 so must've missed that lesson and others...) i'll pass the lesson on to Sam too....

[Sir_Dave]

If you heel & toe properly when you change down, there is little to no additional strain on the clutch/box whether you change at 1k revs, or 6k revs - as everything is matched together. For example, if i change down from 3rd to second there should be no 'jolt' for passengers, it should be all one smooth motion.

If you change down without rev matching, you are obviously putting a massive strain on the drivetrain, which is obviously felt by the passenger when they bang their head on the dashboard. As Tony says, it is like repeatedly dialling in 6k and side stepping the clutch - its not gonna last very long lol.

In addition, by using heel & toe, you can change down at the same time as braking, allowing you to brake later & deeper into the corner, aiding weight transfer and subsequently giving more front end grip when you need it, ie when turning into the corner. Mastering H&T is essential in getting a good lap time imho.

And it makes you french tin can last a little longer

[Toastfrenzy]

Great info - start , cheers

I've started this thread for more info

[Chip-mk1]

When you arent heal and toeing if you just let the clutch pedal back up slightly slower you'll drastically reduce the shock loads on the clutch cover even when using an uprated friction surface.

[Cup_Phil]

What can I say I try my best lol

I think it's just the fact it was getting abused for 40 mins non stop in the race and all getting pretty hot!

I know one chunk of the metal tried to make a bid for freedom from the gaiter for the clutch fork so that would of gone straight through the bonnet

Fecking hell!!

I had a big chunk of clutch let go in an old 309 and it made a nice big hole in the side of the gearbox

[Tony Hunter]

what, so i guess you don't know either???

FFs if you don't know, we're all doomed.

Or are you saying in a roundabout way that it spins and the act of pressing the clutch in is enough to cause it to shed parts\bits of metal?

Double tap? Learn that in the FI?

No, it's when you let the clutch out, then hits flywheel and they are not doing the same speed. A bit like putting your hand in a spin dryer.

[Silent_Scone]

Proper job of that James! Glad it's all sorted

[Yanoo]

The ball joint housing is made of alloy, the alloy have a relatively bad thermal expansion coefficient. In normal case (linkage far from the exhaust, applied heat shield etc.) the shift force remains in a narrow range, determined by the 4 allen bolts despite the various temperature of the car, exhaust & ambient. That's fact that it must be protected from excessive heat, otherwise the alloy collar dilates and causes heavier shift force. Every 0.1 mm inside the alloy housing has noticeable effect on stiffness. If you set up the base tightness loose (bolts are just tightened, no appreciable stiffness caused by the housing) when the exhaust is cold, it should have enough room to dilate when the exhaust gets very hot (without heat shield) and it should not effect too tight linkage. If you have any observations, please let me know. Thanks!

[Tony Hunter]

The ball joint housing is made of alloy, the alloy have a relatively bad thermal expansion coefficient. In normal case (linkage far from the exhaust, applied heat shield etc.) the shift force remains in a narrow range, determined by the 4 allen bolts despite the various temperature of the car, exhaust & ambient. That's fact that it must be protected from excessive heat, otherwise the alloy collar dilates and causes heavier shift force. Every 0.1 mm inside the alloy housing has noticeable effect on stiffness. If you set up the base tightness loose (bolts are just tightened, no appreciable stiffness caused by the housing) when the exhaust is cold, it should have enough room to dilate when the exhaust gets very hot (without heat shield) and it should not effect too tight linkage. If you have any observations, please let me know. Thanks!

Helpful as always Yanoo.

[ph-reebone]

good to see you are now alot more positive mate,
sounds like you are going to have a great time on wednesday... jealous